April 21, 2008 8:40 AM
Vaccinations: pros and cons - your input, please
I originally published this in May 2007, but this question in my Inbox this morning prompted me to reprint it with all the original comments. Please feel free to add more:
How do you feel about vaccinations? When I was going through my special education training, many parents told me that they felt their children had been fine before vacs and not after. As a young mom, I worry...alot! Any suggestions?
Since I know some of my readers are much more up-to-speed on this issue than I, I'm turning this question over to you:I have been wondering where you are on the whole immunization question.I now have a three week old granddaughter and her parents are really trying to research vaccines from a realistic perspective. The Internet is so divided and it is hard to find any balanced information.
Her pediatrician gleefully told my daughter that now little L can get all her vaccines in one "supershot"!
This leads me to believe that it is going to very hard to "opt out" of anything that isn't wanted or needed.
We have some very persistent autoimmune conditions in our family and so does my son-in-law.
Just wanted to see what you think. Yo u have a very clear-headed approach to such issues.
Thanks and God Bless,
J
This is a discussion we really need to have. Coming from the "Question Authority" generation, I'm constantly amazed that the only authority that it seems okay to question these days is the administration and the church.
What about medicine? Why should we trust all the vaccines and medicines pushed on us - when there are companies profiting from making us believe they are necessary? While I'm grateful that our children have been spared exposure to smallpox and polio, I think it's our responsibility to know exactly what we are exposing our children to because of pressure from the medical establishment and the government.
Do you know that when the X-ray was first invented, even small town shoe stores had their own machine so they could see how a child's foot fit inside a shoe?
I'll bet that sure seemed like a good idea - after all, ill-fitting shoes could cause permanent damage to a child's feet. Think of how careful we are with X-rays today - you know, with the lead screen over private parts and the operator leaving the site before pulling the trigger. But in 1940, who knew?
Today, with situations like Gardasil - where Merck is plastering TV time with teen girl-friendly ads, while making campaign contributions to a Texas governor who bypasses the legislative process (and discussion) via an executive order mandating Gardasil shots for all girls entering middle school - and some parents theorizing that the growing incidence of autism is related to vaccinations, well how could we possibly assume that anyone other than us has our children's best interest at heart?
For more on Gardasil, see:
Gardasil - HPV vaccine - get the whole scoop
Gardasil: HPV vaccine and parental rights
And look for some lively discussion about our vaccination-happy culture in the comments to come.
Posted in Babies, Current Affairs | Permalink
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://mommylife.net/fastcgi/mt/mt-tb.fcgi/1785
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Vaccinations: pros and cons - your input, please:
Comments
I work in the healthcare field and i am aware of the "study" that states immunizations cause autism. This study was disproven MANY times and is not accurate. The risks of not immunizing your child are by far higher then the risk of doing so. My sister has chosen to not give her child his shots and this is very disturbing to me, if your look up "polio" on google and select images this is enough to convince me, forget all the other illnesses! Of course someone is going to profit from their babies getting shots, this is the country we live in. I would rather contribute to their wealth then have my own child buried..
Posted by: JaeLorette | May 29, 2007 3:29 PM
"Why should we trust all the vaccines and medicines pushed on us"...well, how about because I didn't go to medical school, but my pediatrician did!. A more important issue would be finding a pediatrician who you really, truly trust--a person of character who is available and takes a mom's questions seriously. Thankfully, mine fits the bill. Having discussed the issue with him at length, I feel confident that he's in a better position to interpret the medical that my untrained eye is.
Posted by: Rocks In My Dryer | May 29, 2007 3:47 PM
I like to look at things from a historical perspective. When my daughter was born, my mom let me borrow her baby book - the book her mother (my grandmother) kept when she was a child. It was fun to see when my mother hit different milestones, but I was shocked when I saw all the notes about her medical history. My mother - a healthy child - had three bouts with pneumonia, the measles, chicken pox, and at least 2 or 3 other serious illnesses that are all preventable today with vaccinations...within her first THREE years of life! That is an awful lot of sickness for one little child.
The sad thing is, many of these illnesses are on the rise again because children aren't being vaccinated for them. And many of these illnesses can be life threatening.
Posted by: Kristina | May 29, 2007 4:05 PM
These days, families must choose between the pharmaceutical industry or alternative health-care. Our experience has thankfully led us to the latter.
Read our vaccination story here:
http://parentingdecisions.com/vaccination/
In addition to following the links and reading the suggested books, I encourage you to watch the video at my site.
Posted by: Carol | May 29, 2007 4:32 PM
I have to agree with the previous three posters: vaccinations are a great boon. I've seen pictures of people with tetanus, and I have trouble imagining a worse way to die (horrific muscle spasms, until even your face is frozen in a rictus grin - even when people (rarely) recover, they spend months in a dark, silent room, to avoid triggering the hideously painful spasms). And that's just one disease. Go on to whooping cough, polio and the rest . . . shudder.
I'm not convinced Gardisil is a good thing; it certainly needs more testing before being mandated as part of the vaccination schedule. But the DTaP? Thank God for it. And I mean that in all seriousness; I really do thank the Lord for the DTaP. It means my kids aren't likely to get what are some pretty terrifying diseases. And for that, I am grateful.
peace of Christ to you,
Jessica Snell
Posted by: Jessica Snell | May 29, 2007 4:33 PM
As a mother and not a doctor I do not claim to have any expertise on this issue other than the God given responsibility to steward my children to the very best of my ability. This is a hot topic between parents because it is so easy to take sides. Either way, though, I believe strongly that parents should do as much research as possible and not just take their pediatrician's recommendations at a whim.
"Why should we trust all the vaccines and medicines pushed on us"...well, how about because I didn't go to medical school, but my pediatrician did!Here's one example in my own life where this logic does not make sense: When I brought my 4 day old in to see my pediatrician (this has happened with all three children) he told me to space my feedings out in order to establish a good milk supply. I just 'grin and bear it'. But do I take his advice? No! It is contrary to the way our bodies are designed and would be foolish for me to implement. Simply because he has "M.D." after his name does not make him expert on all things medical. (why he thinks this about breastfeeding I have no idea!) Still, I think he is a good Dr. and I respect him and am thankful that he can help when my children are ill.
Back to vaccines - Here are a few of the reasons that we have opted to wait until our children are at least 6 or 7 to give them select vaccines:
Breastfeeding is the very best way to promote health in infants - Our pediatrician agreed to wait on vaccinating our little ones. When he saw how healthy they are (not in daycares, breastfed for 18 months+, etc.) he told me that after 12 months of age they don't really "need" many of the vaccines at all.
Many physicians believe that vaccines are linked to SIDS, Alzheimer's Disease, Gulf War Syndrome, Intestinal problems, Diabetes, and Autism, not to mention scores of other adverse reactions.
Many vaccines are made utilizing tissue from aborted fetuses.
Many physicians believe improved nutrition and sanitation, and access to clean drinking water are the best means for good health.
I could go on and on, but I have to tend to my little ones!
The internet has loads of controversial and angry people on both sides of the debate. I shy away from those articles. Instead check out Dr. Sears or Dr. Gordon. (www.askdrsears.com, www.drjaygordon.com) Another interesting site is http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/vaccines.htm
Posted by: Carole | May 29, 2007 5:28 PM
We did vaccinations as scheduled until my oldest ds had an adverse reaction that the health department blew off. After researching and considering all the allergies in the family we decided to do a delayed vaccination schedule. We are also careful limit the number of shots received in a visit.
If young children [in the past] could wait until 6+ months to start receiving vaccinations why are they pushed so early? If there is an adverse reaction how would you know which was the culprit? There are also other considerations. Shots wear off and having childhood diseases as an adult is no laughing matter. Not to mention how the vacines are derived--aborted fetal cells anyone?
Disease rates were already going down when vaccination became the big thing. This was due to better sanitation and understanding of how diseases are spread. Medical science does not have all the answers--consider how the scientist that discovered H. pilori causes ulcers was treated by the medical establishment. He was all but drummed out of the field until further research validated his findings. The rise in these diseases is not entirely from unvaccinated children, many are children who did receive shots but their systems didn't react to provide the necessary immunity.
Still, every parent must do the reading for themselves and decide what risks they are willing to live with and the proceed from there. A child damaged by receiving/not receiving vaccinations is no laughing matter and shouldn't be left up to what everyone else around the family is doing.
Posted by: Stephanie | May 29, 2007 6:52 PM
My parents and I all work in health care, so places of employment such as hospitals require documentation of immunity for several diseases. My mom and I were discussing her new job, and I was shocked to learn she'd never had the MMR series.
She's worked in neonatal units and lived in dorms and other things that require MMR vaccination now, but when she was a young child (she's 55 this year), she had real measles, real mumps and real rubella. My dad had real polio, and suffered nerve damage in middle age because of it. I'm part of the last generation to grow up with real chickenpox.
There's risks to vaccination, but I think the absence of vaccine-preventable diseases magnifies vaccination's risks and makes the disadvantages of the diseases less apparent, making the decision-making process an emotional one rather than an intellectual one. Supportive care _has_ improved in the last 50 years, and most children _do_ survive childhood diseases unharmed, but childhood diseases are not without medical sequelae. My parents came through ok, but like those people who complain about laws against riding in pickup truck beds and requiring kids to wear bike helmets, they are among those who lived.
Rejection of vaccinations is sometimes part of a rejection of the entire Western biomedical model, as Carol alludes to. I'll be the first to admit our implementation has serious problems, but some vaccine opponents reject, say, the germ theory of disease, and I have no idea how to find common ground with them.
Posted by: persimmon | May 29, 2007 7:14 PM
One thing I wanted to add: if you are planning on selective vaccination, please consider including Haemophilus influenzae type b (aka the neonatal meningitis vaccine).
"Because of the vaccine-related decline in meningitis due to H. influenzae type b, bacterial meningitis in the United States is now a disease predominantly of adults rather than of infants and young children."(NEJM)
Posted by: persimmon | May 29, 2007 7:23 PM
I'm not going to spend a lot of time giving you MY views on vaccinations. but what I will tell you is that it is every parents own personal decision and this book is the best ever and most truly honest information I have found.
What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations by Stephanie Cave.
Posted by: SmocknMama | May 29, 2007 7:58 PM
We are expecting our first child in a few months, and I am planning on meeting with our prospective Pediatrician soon. My Mom delayed vaccinations for my 6 siblings and me, but we received them all in due time. I am considering a similar plan.
I am not opposed to immunizations in general, but am leery of a few individual vaccines, such as Chicken Pox. It only provides a 10-year immunity, so it will wear off by the time my kid is 12. And most of the childhood diseases we vaccinate against now were so bad because we didn't have the medical technology to treat the illness. I am not saying that virtually eradicating things like Polio hasn't been good, because it has. I just don't feel that all of the "recommended" vaccines are necessary or wise, especially since the list seems to be continually growing.
I am planning on talking with my Pediatrician about a delayed immunization schedule, along with limiting the vaccines to one at a time. Bombarding a still-developing immune, nervous, and neurological system with so many things at once is a little frightening to me. I respect his training and medical expertise, but when it comes down to it, I'm the Mommy.
Posted by: Superchikk | May 29, 2007 7:59 PM
Here is a direct link to the video I mentioned above.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8610554679207090010&hl=en
Posted by: Carol | May 29, 2007 9:13 PM
I had a childhood friend whose parents chose not to vaccinate her (in the early 1980s). When she was a freshman in high school, the girl caught whooping cough and could have died. She was hospitalized for about two months, as I recall. Failing to vaccinate a child is reckless and selfish.
Posted by: l.s. | May 29, 2007 9:59 PM
"Why should we trust all the vaccines and medicines pushed on us"...well, how about because I didn't go to medical school, but my pediatrician did!
Here's my problem, 5 out of my 6 children have had their lives endangered (or nearly, if I hadn't done something about it) by people who went to medical school but didn't have my children's best interests at heart. My oldest daughter nearly died shortly after birth, caused by an anesthesiologist who passed her strep. Her situation was further complicated by hospital administrators who didn't want my daughter transferred to a hospital properly equipped to care for her. If my husband hadn't gotten a lawyer involved, my daughter probably would have died.
My middle daughter's life was endangered by a doctor who refused to consider her life (growing in my womb) while medicating me. Instead of giving me the drug that was safer for pregnant women, he lied to me about his specialty (said he was an OB -- he wasn't) and gave me the drug he thought I should have. (This was in a supposedly good hospital, too!) Then he refused to come see me for a full 8 hours in my hospital room, finally sending a nurse to say he was going home.
I was forced to change doctors at least once per pregnancy with my middle son, youngest son, and youngest daughter due "policies" that put the doctor's preferences over the welfare of my children. (One doctor dropped me as a patient after failing to harass me into registering at a hospital that was closer to his house. Nevermind that it was filthy.)
Reading all of this you might think I'm some kind of difficult patient who finds fault in every doctor or nurse I encounter. On the contrary, until these incidents I was prone to idolize doctors and believe they could do no wrong. I thought it was nothing short of foolish to disregard any recommendation from the mouths of these medical school scholars. Then I found myself pregnant and on state health insurance, and I learned how quickly a doctor's concern turns to careless contempt when they think you are stupid and can't stand up for yourself.
Only one of my children has had the "standard" post-birth treatments. I've been told that my children MUST have eye drops in case I have an STD I just don't know about. (How insulting! And if there's a better reason, someone should tell our local hospitals because they think that's why it's done.) I've had doctors tell me that the Vitamin K shot is a must for babies who are being circumcised, but then refuse to circumcise on the 8th day when Vitamin K is at a natural high. And I'm tired of being told that I must have a c-section just because I had one once, many babies ago. (3 VBACs so far, and I even managed to overcome the supposed problem that caused the initial c-section.) I've even had a pediatrician insist on x-raying my 3 month old's birthmark because he was sure it was a bruise. (Funniest bruise I ever saw -- had been there 3 months at the time and is still there 5 years later.)
No, thanks, I think I'll decide about vaccinations for myself.
Posted by: Michelle Potter | May 29, 2007 11:09 PM
PS, doctors may go to medical school, but I bet the teachers in Barbara's next post all have degrees in education, too.
Posted by: Michelle Potter | May 29, 2007 11:11 PM
I would like to second the recommendation of "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations". I find it to be balanced, informative, and she even gives recommendations on what to do if you do decide to vaccinate (give lots of Vit. C, etc.) I have 4 children. The first 3 were pretty much vaccinated on schedule. They were all breastfed. They ALL suffered HORRIBLE ear infections for over a year.
With my 4th child, we vaccinated VERY slowly, and one series at the time. This child has by far been the healthiest of the 4, and has had only 1 ear infection in his whole 4 years of life! When we vaccinate, I pump the child full of vit. c for a couple of weeks prior and cut out most sugar. Before they get their shot, I pray over them and anoint them with oil. They keep getting the vit. c for a few weeks after.
I am in the "scared to vaccinate, scared to not vaccinate" camp. I will say that I totally disagree with vaccinating children against several diseases at once. I believe it puts too much strain on their little bodies. My best advice is to pray, submit to your husband's wishes, and give their bodies what they need to keep them healthy and able to fight off whatever comes their way. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor and I don't play one on the internet!
Posted by: Beth | May 30, 2007 1:52 AM
This is such an emotive issue and you're always going to get a variety of opinions on the subject, no matter what the research says.
I was a public health nurse in Scotland for several years, part of my role was to administer childhood immunizations to the under 5's. This was at the height of the MMR scare following publication of Dr Andrew Wakefield's (now discredited) researched that linked bowel cancer and Autism to the MMR.
All of that to say that no vaccine (or any other medication for that matter) is ever going to be guaranteed to be 100% safe. It's a tough call for many parents though.
We did vaccinate all our children in the end, I figured there were probably more risks associated with the diseases in the end.
In the UK there is no routine vaccine offered for chicken pox as it's not considered a major threat, both my boys had it, one as a 3 year old and the other at 12 weeks.
Posted by: Sheena | May 30, 2007 3:45 AM
Our personal decision was to get any immunizations against air-borne communicable diseases. In other words, anything your child can get without even doing anything but breathing. Things that are behavior related, like Hep-B and Gardasil, are their own responsibility if their behavior warrants it. And not necessarily in a bad-behavior scenario: our son is now in the military, so he got his Hep-B.
Posted by: Salome Ellen | May 30, 2007 7:52 AM
"Why should we trust all the vaccines and medicines pushed on us"...well, how about because I didn't go to medical school, but my pediatrician did!
Reminds me of the old joke:
Q: What you do you call the person who graduates bottom of his class in medical school?
A: Doctor.
Posted by: Amy K. | May 30, 2007 9:10 AM
Whooping cough is very serious to children under six months old. I know a family whose baby died from it. They didn't vaccinate. Most older kids can pull through it, but I wouldn't gamble with their life or health. Polio is pretty bad, too. I'm a nurse and have taken care of patients with post-polio syndrome (paralyzed). The world was a very different place before vaccines.
Chicken pox vaccine is not for just ten years. That seems to be a weird rumor going around. I believe it is for life. One reason to get the Chicken Pox vaccine is because your kids will not get it when they are young like they did before. Remember the chicken pox parties? Now, if your kids do get them, they will probably be older and get very sick (adults are usually hospitalized).
The autism link has been disproved. They thought it was connected to the mercury in the vaccine and they don't even make the vaccines with mercury anymore. (There are some trace elements in one, but I can't think of the one, right now). Even though the mercury is mostly gone from vaccines, the rate of autism has gone up. Here is a helpful CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-research.htm#9
What gets me worried is that there are so many SAE's out there (self-appointed experts). I think that there are some bad doctors out there (I've met them), but the majority of drs and nurses who go to school do not do it to hurt and abuse people. They are experts in their field and if you don't think what they say is reasonable...get another opinion. (I've told my OB-GYN "no" before. He was upset, but the world did not end. He was trying to do what was best for me and was worried that I had made the wrong decision.)
Be careful what unqualified people you listen to on the internet. Just because it is on the internet, it doesn't mean it is true.
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
Posted by: Zan | May 30, 2007 10:20 AM
To Zan and everyone else-
I don't think we're talking about the validity of pertussis (whooping cough) vaccine here. We're talking about the plethora of vaccines that many think have been unleashed on the public without enough testing by greedy pharmaceutical companies.
We're also talking about vaccinations for diseases spread by other means than airborne.
I am not what you labeled an SAE (self-appointed expert) and I don't believe anyone who commented here would consider themselves that either. We are mothers who are trying to do the best we can for our children. As a mother of 12 - for 37 years - I see that the mistakes I made with my children were often due to taking someone else's "expert" advice rather than taking the time and energy (always in short supply when you're raising kids) to make sure I understood completely what was going on.
btw, I had whooping cough myself when I was 10 and though I was in bed for six weeks, I didn't die.
And yes, the chicken pox vaccine is wearing off after 12 years and kids entering middle school here in Virginia are supposed to get a booster (have not researched the other states).
Like others who've mentioned disappointing episodes with the medical establishment, I had my share when Jonny was in the hospital eight times the first 15 months of his life - with three major surgeries and a near-fatal bout with pneumonia. Let me tell you something: the only reason that pneumonia became fatal was because the doctors did not take seriously my own diagnosis - that it was caused by aspiration - and they were treating him for everything else but that. Until they finally prepared us to accept that he would die. At the last moment they said "Ah-ha! We'll try treating him for aspiration pneumonia," which shocked me to pieces as I had said all along that was what he had and had assumed that in good faith they were treating him for it.
Rocks in my Dryer - I have a wonderful pediatrician who is a mother and a Christian and we see eye-to-eye about everything. She has recommended against hep-B and gardasil for my daughters - and she doesn't give them the standard sex/birth control chat favored by the medical establishment which supports the child's autonomy rather than parental authority.
I will note that every person here who reacted emotionally to the questions I posed never addressed the issue of the premature and casual introduction of Xray machines nor the corrupt and money-driven Gardasil campaign. They tended to be judgmental and even disrespectful of those who questioned the need for every vaccination offered.
Those who responded with doubts about the wisdom of hyper-vaccination practices in this country laid out some thoughtful boundaries they had made - I didn't hear any hysteria, only women making difficult choices for their own families without judging others.
Like I said, questioning conventional wisdom is never harmful - and people should be very careful to what lengths they go to defend the status quo. Just smearing anyone who questions the wisdom of so many vaccinations while ignoring compelling historical evidence - that's just not healthy.
Posted by: barbara | May 30, 2007 10:50 AM
There is no doubt that the vaccine question is a difficult decision to make. I personally began to research the issue when my 2nd child had a reaction. I have now decided to wait until my kids are 7 and then we are only going to do Td. I will say that my three children who have not received any vaccines have been my healthiest. My first two had many ear infections, not one in my last three! Does everyone know that as adults we are supposed to be keeping up on all vaccines? Every 10 years? I have my doubts that adults are really doing this! In regards to the aborted fetus derived vaccines, I have a difficult time justifying with my conscience knowing that something so horrific had to happen to get the rubella vaccine. How ironic, a vaccine that is supposed to protect a growing baby, had to kill babies to get the culture. I often wonder how can any good come from this type of medicine. Does God really bless this type of medicine? My conscience says no. Some vaccines they are coming up with these days are so not needed. What are we going to do when we have a whole slew of adults with chicken-pox. Not to mention pregnant women, when chicken-pox is dangerous to have. I am lucky that all 5 of my children have had chicken-pox naturally. It was harmless!! And here is a good tidbit, I exposed all five of my kids at the same time, the only one that came down with it, was my daughter that had had the required vaccine!!! This makes me wonder, do vaccines really work????? The best advice I can give is to PRAY.
Posted by: Carolyn | May 30, 2007 11:00 AM
We have chosen to have our three daughters receive vaccinations so far. I do not see the need for the "behavior" related vaccinations.
As far as Chicken Pox being harmless, I have to disagree. My sisters and I all had chicken pox in the '80s (before the vaccination was available) when we were all younger than 10 years old. My younger sisters were very sick almost to the point of needing hospitalization. I had a lesser case. Any sickness can become serious, even something as "harmless" as chicken pox.
One danger in a discussion like this is personal anecdotes are not facts. Prayer and careful study, without attacking those who have different views, seems to be the best course of action when faced with a controversial topic like this.
Posted by: Karen | May 30, 2007 11:39 AM
As to the chicken pox vaccine being derived from fetal tissue, my research (and I did research it) showed that it was derived from a very old stem cell line which, while created from aborted fetuses, was NOT created from fetuses aborted for the purpose of medical research. The stem cell line was (I believe, I did the research over a year ago) created about thirty years ago, long before the current trend of creating embreyos expressly for use in research (which is an abominable practice).
Also, in my research, I looked up what the Vatican had to say about the issue. I'm not Roman Catholic, but I figured you couldn't get any more pro-life than the Vatican! :D Their opinion was, to my recollection, that as the tragedy of those babies' death had already occurred, and had not occurred for the purpose of creating a vaccine, it would be a waste not to use the life-saving medicine that came about, in part, because of their death. Again, I'm not Roman Catholic, but I'm hard-pressed to think of anyone who takes ethical issues more seriously, or reasons through them more thoughtfully, than the Vatican. I felt comfortable relying on their opinion in this case. You can find their opinion on it pretty easily through Google. I hope that's helpful to someone.
peace of Christ to you,
Jessica Snell
Posted by: Jessica Snell | May 30, 2007 11:42 AM
We vaccinated our son through six months but decided to hold off after that. I don't know what our ultimate decision will be, but right now I am leaning toward not vaccinating at all.
I have done a lot of reading, mostly on the CDC website (professional pages not the parent pages.)I have read articles from respected scientific journals. I have looked at the historical instances of disease and death from the various diseases (even polio was a very rare disease.) I have looked at the list of ingredients (aluminum, formaldehyde, etc.) and how some of the vaccines are produced (in cell lines from aborted fetal tissue). I am not comfortable injecting those substances into my perfectly healthy son.
I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their child. If my circumstances were different I might make a different decision. I will talk to my doctor but I will also do my own research. I go to the doctor for medical advice not to be told what to do. My doctor does not *really* have my or my child's best interest at heart. I do.
Posted by: Diana | May 30, 2007 12:44 PM
I am interested in any comments addressing the initial questioner's concern about the connection between possible vaccine reaction and auto-immune disorders.
I've been trying to get someone- ANYONE- to address this and have been unsuccessful. My contention/concern is NOT whether vaccines cause autism, but rather, does the pre-existence of an autoimmune disorder PREDISPOSE a child to vaccine reaction/injury (such as, say, autism-like symptoms).
I do know that the HepB vaccine does not effect immunity in celiacs, for instance. Why get a vaccine that doesn't grant immunity?
I wonder if anyone out there has (or their child has) and autoimmune disorder that has had an adverse reaction to a vaccination- and, if so, which one?
Posted by: melissa | May 30, 2007 1:18 PM
Barbara, I agree that some people are making a LOT of money. My child's last shot was a combo shot suggested by my Pediatrician. He failed to mention that it was $175 above our insurance. That is well above 50% of our food budget for the month for our family. Gardasil always sounded like a bad idea to me. When I look bad a few years at all the drugs mass marketed to the population and where they have ended up now...lawsuits...pulled by the FDA...in the news for unreported deaths in healthy people. The aggregate of this makes me view pharmaceutical companies as the last place to get good medical information...or any good information at all.
Posted by: Imajackson | May 30, 2007 2:33 PM
I have a lot I could write about my own experience and opinions, but I thought instead I would remind us all that it is our responsibility to seek out the facts. There is a reason we have to sign the form, accepting responsibility, to get our children vaccinated. It is our job find out why before signing that we know.
Posted by: Honey | May 30, 2007 4:37 PM
Hi Barbara,
I usually run away from the vaccination debates these days. I didn't even realize there *was* a debate until we started homeschooling!
I did want to share a link from Dr. Jay Wile (Ph.D., not M.D.), founder of Apologia Educational Ministries:
Vaccines: The REAL Story
It's long if you read the "embedded" links, but all of the pages are well worth a thorough read by any parent trying to make a well-informed decision.
Here's where I have finally arrived: Any parent who is taking the time to research, in depth, vaccines, etc. wants the best for his or her children. If we come to the same decision on vaccinations, there are surely other issues on which we *won't* agree. If we disagree, there are surely other issues on which we do. But we can celebrate that we are both loving, devoted parents who are parenting "on purpose." Maybe we'll even learn something from one another if we approach each other with love and humility!
~Kari
Posted by: Kari at HealedWaters.com | May 30, 2007 5:10 PM
I have done a lot of reading regarding vaccinations because my second son had a bad reaction to the chicken pox vaccine, but I will limit my comment to the concern posted in the original question.
Growing up in Mexico I never received any vaccines at all; I have natural immunity to all the childhood diseases because I had them when I was a kid. However, while going thru the immigration process to become a legal resident I got one or two rounds of all the vaccinations I was supposed to get as a child. Not long after that I begun to experience joint pain and stiffness. I never knew exactly what caused it.
The situation took a turn for the worse when I was pregnant with my first child; I spent most of the nine months and six months after the birth in complete pain; not just any pain, but the kind that makes you unable to even get out of bed; I kept asking the doctors what was wrong and they dismissed it as a "natural" thing due to pregnancy.
Four weeks after the baby was born the pain got so bad I could not even hold him to breastfeed him; I walked in the doctors office and demanded to have a full physical done, along with blood test of every kind; I told them I wasn't going to walk out of there without knowing what was wrong with me. When the results came back it turned out I had rheumatoid arthritis (which is an autoimmune disease). The doctors where puzzled with my case because no one in my family suffers from RA and I was otherwise a very healthy person.
Fast forward three years, when my second child had a bad reaction to the vaccine and I began to do a lot of reading about the issue. I found out that some of the ingredients in the vaccines could cause a lot of bad reactions including.....rheumatoid arthritis.
I truly believe that the vaccinations had something to do with it; no wonder no one in my family has RA...I'm the only one vaccinated; no one else has been vaccinated, ever. Not just my siblings, but also my parents, grandparents... you get the idea.
I'm not going to tell anyone what to do in regards to vaccinations, because I believe we are responsible for our own health; notice I said WE, not our doctors; I respect those who believe that the doctors absolutely know what they are doing because they went to medical schools, however, consider what the doctors have said about Down Syndrome for many, many years, and this blog is proof they are wrong. Also consider the fact that USA is the most vaccinated nation in the western world, yet we are one of the sickest nations, could it be that we are wreaking havoc with the awesome immune system God set in place when He created us?
Much to pray about.
Posted by: LadyLovas | May 30, 2007 5:27 PM
Without trying to be sarcastic or combative: what standards of evidence for safety and efficacy would be acceptable? A number of factors make vaccine studies more difficult than most regular drug studies, such as the expense of follow-up, the number of drop-outs due to lost contact, the unethical nature of exposing subjects to an infectious disease (meaning data must usually rely upon secondary markers like antibody titers rather than infection rates, because otherwise the study cannot be made large enough to statistically detect a difference).
Yes, pharmaceutical companies are in the business to make money. They invest a great deal of money into drug development, and they invest even more into marketing. In biopharmaceutics cases, in which generics are not currently possible, they may stand to make even more over the long haul than they would with a regular oral drug that would fall off patent in about seven years. That someone is making profit off a drug doesn't mean it's not safe or efficacious, and neither does PhRMA funding of a study mean the data or conclusions are wrong. Certainly their methods and analysis need to be examined closely, and conflicting interests disclosed.
With respect to your fluoroscope example, or other examples of unforeseen medical consequences due to enthusiastic early adoption, some of those consequences could have been uncovered through more rigorous premarket testing. Most compounds today do not make it though in vitro and animal testing to human tests, but if new drugs are intended for human use then at some point they need to be tested on humans. Statistically, no human trial can predict every side effect that will come to light in post-marketing surveillance, and so we end up with "using the public as guinea pigs".
Drug companies are stuck in a marketing bind. Too few trials, and they risk a public-health fiasco. Too long to market, and they lose their patent and their entire incentive for bringing drugs to market at all. It's not my intent to champion them, and I'm not sure that the pseudo-free market atmosphere of the US drug industry is a good way to implement pharmaceutical research. But that is the situation currently.
I was not trying to be insulting earlier. What I was trying to get at is that there's different layers of objection to the current schedules. Some question vaccinations for blood-borne diseases like Hep B. Some question live attenuated viruses. Some question combination vaccines such as MMR vs M, M, and R separately. Some suspect the presence of thimerosal or adjuvant ingredients in the formulations as the source of adverse reactions. Some claim that vaccines are just not effective, and I am sure there are some I haven't mentioned. As a healthcare provider I can locate good-quality trial data that address some of these concerns, but not others.
Posted by: persimmon | May 30, 2007 5:58 PM
Many have mentioned aborted fetal tissue among the components, but I haven't seen any mention of the various animal tissues being used in them. Considering the widespread scares concerning bird flu, mad cow, and the like, isn't it just a teensy bit worrisome that we could be predisposing ourselves to zoological diseases? I'm no expert, just a concerned mommy, so if someone has a scientific answer for this, I'd love to read it.
I am also in the camp of "too much too soon." We wouldn't dream of giving a 2 month old infant cow's milk, yet we'll inject them with vaccines made from milk products. My 2 year old son had near anaphalactic (spelling?) reactions after unintentional exposure to milk products at 6-8 months of age until I sat down and googled it and found that everything from his vaccines to our laundry detergent and shampoo had some milk product in the mix. We found ourselves becoming much more careful consumers on all fronts at that point.
This is by no means a scientific study, but no mountain of studies compares with the importance of being personally informed on subjects that affect my children. I don't have all the answers, but I also know that there is only One who does. He's the one I'll answer to in the end, you know?
Posted by: Michelle | May 30, 2007 6:23 PM
Just a quick note to recommend two books that have been very informative to me; both are written by medical doctors, which gives a better perspective to those of us willing to listen only to medical doctors and not alternative medicine practitioners.
The first one is "How to raise a healthy child" by Lendon H Smith, M.D.
The second one is "How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor" by Robert S. Meldelsohn.
Posted by: Lady Lovas | May 30, 2007 10:16 PM
I liked Kim C.'s post about vaccines... just a few of her thoughts: http://inashoe.blogspot.com/2005/12/new-can-of-worms-vaccinations.html
I was just reading recently that doctors are recommending that anyone who comes into contact with a newborn baby should be re-vaccinated for whooping cough (i.e. the booster shot) because the whooping cough vaccines they give the babies aren't yet effective until months later, after which time whooping cough isn't as dangerous, anyway. So parents who think, "I got my child vaccinated for whooping cough! We're safe now!" ...well, you might be... in a few months. Just more reason NOT to put your baby in daycare at 6 weeks of age!
Another thing to consider (btw, I know this is a rather random comment, but since others have posted good thoughts, I'm just adding a little here!) is that a lot of potentially deadly illnesses are "more" potentially deadly when they aren't treated properly.
For example, rotavirus causes many babies and children under the age of two to be hospitalized each year, due to dehydration. Babies can even die from rotavirus! And most children will have had it once before the age of two. (I know both of my boys have had it.) Sounds like a good thing to vaccinate for, right? Well, the vaccination they released for rotavirus just recently (a pervious one had been recalled) is being reconsidered by the FDA... how many times has a vaccine been marketed and administered to people and then, "Ooops, this is causing problems... never mind!"?! I guess to me, it makes more sense to KNOW the symptoms of rotavirus, and KNOW how to effectively treat it.
I had the chicken pox when I was 6. I sure hope my children are able to catch it before they get to an age where it's life-threatening. Why would we want to rely on purchasing an injection every so many years in order to avoid risking death from the chicken pox, when we could have natural immunity?? :)
Posted by: Tammy L | May 31, 2007 2:09 AM
Arrived in my inbox today...
http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Origins-of-Autism-15861.aspx
And since we are digging for the REAL STORY... Here are some more links... I guess the choice to vaccinate comes down to who you believe.
http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/
http://thinktwice.com/global.htm
http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/
Posted by: Carol | May 31, 2007 7:53 AM
A few years ago, three of my children, and my brother and sister (as adults) had whooping cough. Three out of the five WERE vaccinated.
Way more than 100 people (I lost count at about 155) in our small area caught the whooping cough. Everyone was vaccinated except two of my children and two babies.
As I fully remember, helping my children through this serious disease was scary. Assuming the position of telling other parents that they SHOULD vaccinate is almost more scary. I feel sick when I see people encouraging parents to vaccinate. I don't know how they can carry that responsibility.
Posted by: Carol | May 31, 2007 12:25 PM
Wow. I had no idea this topic was so emotionally charged.
Did you know that measles, whooping cough, diptheria, scarlet fever, polio, and tetanus were on the decline (by 90-99.5%)BEFORE the introduction of mandatory vaccines? Statistics from the official Health Dept. of the U.S., Great Britain and Australia bear this out.
Did you know that Dr. Robert Gallo, the US expert who first identified the AIDS virus, raised the possibility between the spread of AIDS in Central Africa and the World Health Organization's Smallpox vaccination campaign?
Did you know that researchers have shown that children who received the pertussis vaccine were 5.43 times more likely to develop asthma in later years, over twice as likely to have ear infections, and significantly more likely to spend longer periods in hospital than those who had not received the vaccine?
Thus, clear evidence is emerging of a long term weakening of the immune system due to vaccination.
Did you know that in studies and past outbreaks of the whooping cough, the vaccine has been shown to be only 50-80% effective?
Good luck in your research, and in making the decision best for you and your family.
Posted by: Jessica | June 1, 2007 2:14 AM
Barbara,
Thank you once again for this forum for discussion of matters close to the heart of mommies! This issue has been on my mind alot as just last week I was at my pediatrician's office for my baby boy's 2 month check up and had to sign an immunization refusal again. (I signed one for the first time when I refused them for my now 2 year old girl.) I love hearing what other parents decided to do and their reasons why.
I have done some (not nearly enough) research and am now leaning toward a delayed schedule of some shots- and just one vaccine at a time- when my daughter is 4 or 5. I totally agree that the vaccines for behavior-transmitted diseases are unnecessary for infants. Here in central FL the first HepB vaccine is given before the babies leave the hospital! Many more thoughts, but not enough time...
Posted by: purebillow | June 1, 2007 2:12 PM
What a luxury to be able to debate vaccines. Are we so far removed from the devastation of disease that we think we can simply stop vaccinating at this point? It makes me want to go personally apologize to every third-world mother who has lost a child to a disease easily prevented via vaccination.
What would happen if everyone stopped vaccinating tomorrow? How long would it take for the diseases to spread back through our population?
Do those who do not vaccinate depend on those who do vaccinate? If so, that is some pretty iffy moral ground...
Posted by: mopsy | June 3, 2007 4:40 PM
Mopsy -
I appreciate your perspective for you are right on some levels. However, I think the discussion here is not about either accepting all recommended vaccines or none, but about educating ourselves and separating the reality from the hype. At one time the medical establishment was different and the pharmaceutical companies had not proven to be driven by greed.
We have seen harmful effects of drugs revealed many times after the fact.
I have tried to inject moderation in this discussion.
When you say What would happen if everyone stopped vaccinating tomorrow? I feel like you're setting up those who are doing their research and trying to make intelligent decisions to sound less responsible than those who just do everything they're told to do without thinking about it.
I really think they deserve more respect than that.
Posted by: barbara | June 3, 2007 5:10 PM
It may surprise you, Barbara, to know I agree with you. I am generally wary of new medications and new vaccines for myself and my children. For example my daughters will not be getting the Gardasil vaccine until a proven track record of safety has been established. When I am pregnant I won't even take a Tylenol for a headache (unless it's a migraine). I've refused letting my newborns be vaccinated and turn down vaccinations for things like Hepatitis A.
There are new medications that could treat one of my son's allergies and eczema---but there are questions about the safety. So we skip those medications for now, knowing the medicines he already takes are beneficial and keep him active and comfortable.
I bristled at your implication I was "setting up those who are doing their research..." That was a smack in the face. My intentions weren't shady or underhanded.
On the contrary, I am genuinely curious about the societal and global implications of *all* personal decisions, including the very personal decision regarding vaccination. After God, our number one responsibility is to our family. But we cannot and should not ignore how our decisions affect our world as a whole and I was simply trying to interject that perspective into this debate---unless my reading comprehension skills are rusty, I did not see this perspective presented in this discussion.
I see my questions were unwelcome and I suppose I will continue to ponder them on my own. But that is nothing new.
Posted by: mopsy | June 4, 2007 1:37 PM
Mopsy -
I really think that you might want to reread your original comment. Maybe it wasn't what you intended to express, but no one readin it would know that you were doing anything other than defending all vaccinations. I know sometimes I write things off the cuff and when people question me I can see I needed to take a little more time to make things clear.
Your questions aren't unwelcome, but I'm not sure they represented where you were really coming from.
love,
barbara
Posted by: barbara | June 5, 2007 12:58 PM
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/334/7605/1182%20
Posted by: Carol | July 3, 2007 6:48 AM
i have never had my doubts about vaccinations either, but i have a healthy baby boy he lived to be only 10 weeks old.. he died of supposed SIDS 7 days after his 2 month vaccinations. I just don't understand how they can put that much disease in our infants. i also can not believe that my baby just stopped breathing for no reason. My next biggest argument with vaccinations is i started nursing school this year and before i could start they had to have your shot records and if you did not have all your vaccinations you had to get them. so how is it when you go to get your vaccinations they refuse to give them to you if you are pregnant, how can it not be good for a pregnant mother but it is the "best" thing for an infant. I know deep in my heart that vaccinations took my baby carson away from me. now i don't know if I will not ever vaccinate my children when i have them or if i will just delay it for a couple years.
Posted by: jennifer | October 28, 2007 5:13 PM
I am a professional who works with children with special needs. It is hard to find information that is considered objective these days. I would highly recommend that each person should educate themselves. You need to advocate for your children and yourselves in today's society. If you would like to make an informed decision and would like to read an academic and objective review of the literature regarding developmental disabilities and vaccinations, please read Changing the Course of Autism. Then make your own intelligent and informed decision.
Posted by: Sarah | November 2, 2007 8:04 PM
I think it's important to remember that our kids aren't the only ones involved here, although of course our first responsibility is to them. The view of chicken pox as a minor childhood disease is only true for some ethnic groups--it's far more dangerous to others. Although my kids might not be endangered by chicken pox, they could infect someone for whom this was very, very serious.
The Gardasil vaccine seems to me a very ambivalent issue, because it isn't only a woman's behavior that's the variable. I've known a devout, faithful Christian woman who got cervical cancer from her husband's infidelity.
Posted by: Celia | April 21, 2008 12:06 PM
I think that a lot of us appreciate Dr and Mrs Sears views and experience, so I will let you know that they have a new book called The Vaccine Book. It is available here on Amazon:
Posted by: Greta | April 21, 2008 2:36 PM
**How many times has the "science" of one era been shown to be a very sad mistake in the next? Science is an evolving quest for truth; it is not truth.**
Those who just say, "Well, doctors know more than I do and I have to trust them," greatly underestimate human fallibility and sinfulness and vastly overestimate SCIENCE--and, especially, the accuracy, impartiality, and independence of research conclusions.
In light of the movie, EXpelled, which has just come out, I have to say that this issue does remind me just a little bit of the situation of those whose conclusions are in opposition to neo-Darwinism. I have noticed that the very bright, accomplished physicians who think for themselves, see the very valid concerns about our current vaccination practice, and choose to take a more cautious approach on vaccinations (more cautious schedules, more testing surrounding them, omitting some)are not interviewed on CNN, quoted in parenting magazines or published.
This is much too big a topic to cover in one "comment", but I'll just sum up my position by saying:
Without a doubt, at the very least, the vaccines currently recommended, are too much, too soon, too many at a time, and too broadly given, without any knowledge of underlying genetic and environmental factors.
We are playing with things we don't understand in the bodies of our children, and calling it good, responsible science. Each generation of new discovery shows that our bodies have been designed with amazing, seemingly infinite complexity. How dare physicians perpetually act as if the final chapter of our knowledge has -- or will very soon be-- written?
If anyone is still under the impression that folks are simplistically saying that vaccines directly cause autism, please realize that no one believes that. The belief is that the vaccines interact with so-far-unidentified genetic and environmental factors to both trigger and exacerbate forms of autism. It seems that there are multiple pathways of causation, with myriad specific manifestations. In a word, it is complex.
No, parents of autistic kids are not just angry and looking for someone or something to blame. Many KNOW-- they have SEEN - that vaccines have played a role. They may look like angry lunatics to some, but consider how you would feel and the appearance you might have painted of you in that position. I can think of no fully accurate analogy... (Think of authorities and society at large telling you calmly, rationally and in a patronizing tone that science shows that God cannot possibly exist-- though there are so many key issues they cannot explain-- and that you are standing in the way of progress and benefit to society by your beliefs and practice, and that you must give up your children to them to indoctrinate in the new way they have devised... Ok, as I said, there's no good analogy, but go with that category of position and emotion...) Something has clearly, irreparably and seriously harmed your child and many, many others (though you cannot identify the mechanism), yet you are steamrolled and dismissed in the most demeaning terms by those claiming to represent the entire establishment of rational science (which also cannot identify the mechanisms by which autism occurs, nor stem the tide).
I have a child with autism and other issues. He was born with some subtle delays. No doubt tendencies toward autism were present at birth. But after his 12 month MMR (which our doctor wrongly gave him right on the heels of a bout with pneumonia), he cried constantly for a week. Some steps of progress that he had made disappeared. (For example, he had never babbled, but had just started to utter some word like sounds. All of that disappeared completely, and he did not babble or speak again in any way until he was fully 30 months.)
Wholesale acceptance of our current vaccine practice is foolish. But what do we do right now?? Back to the original question: What is a parent to do?? All I can say is that, if I were starting the parenting and vaccination journey all over again, I would not stop until I found a physician who holds concerns as valid and has a well- thought out alternative vaccination plan for those who want it. (Getting an "M", "M" and "R", instead of an MMR, at a later age, etc.) Pray, research some, pray, make a decision knowing that there may be no "correct" one at this point, and keep living with whatever comes for you. That seems to be the only way for this generation.
Posted by: Marian | April 21, 2008 2:36 PM
This is something that my husband and I have recently been discussing. We are reading the Dr. Robert Sears (son of Dr. Bill and Martha Sears!) book on vaccinations and have decided to go with his alternate immunization schedule. Our children will get all the vaccinations they need, but on a more spread out schedule. We are happy with our decision and I recommend that people read his book!
Posted by: Emma | April 21, 2008 2:53 PM
My husband is a Physician Assistant and we get daily updates on changes of things in the medical world. I just wanted to give you a heads up that now Gardasil is being integrated into some immunization schedules. I thought you might be interested to know that.
Posted by: Kilikina | April 22, 2008 11:04 AM
You can view the laws of each state hereabout being exempt from vaccinations should you choose to opt out of vaccinations. Some states do not allow "personal preference" of opting out but you must have a medical or religious reason. You can also download the form here to fill out and turn in to be exempt from vaccinations in your state.
Posted by: Kilikina | April 22, 2008 11:10 AM
While a few people have brought up the subject of our larger responsibility to society to consider as well as our own personal health in terms of vaccinations I notice no one is mentioning the harmful effect of removing certain diseases from the mainstream.
I just recently read a study pointing to chicken pox vaccinations as the cause of increased number of seniors contracting shingles. Even with booster vaccines, the fact that adults aren't exposed to children who have the disease, which constantly boosts their immunity through out their life can increase their chances of painful cases of shingles after 60. SO to be socially responsible one could argue that we let our children contract chicken pox and take them out to visit their grandparents while they are ill.
There was a case a few years back were some unvaccinated children contracted measles. People were outraged because some pregnant women had been exposed to it. The thing is, it is the responsibility of those pregnant women to get thei booster shots for measles every 10 years, and they hadn't. The children who did get measles on the other hand will never have to worry about being exposed to it while they are pregnant, for their immune response will be much stronger than those who have never gotten the disease.
I just mention this to point out that there are many other sides to this debate which no one has mentioned yet.
Here is something else to think about. Clinical trials of vaccines are rarely run in the US. They are performed in third world countries where fatalities go largely unnoticed by the North American media. I read recently of a child in India who contracted polio because he was being given an experimental vaccine and given large doses once a month. His parents didn't have the privilege of informed consent. Our relatively safe vaccines are often the result of tragedy somewhere else. This is just another example of how the poor are oppressed and we benefit from it, often without knowing about it; like cheap T-shirts that we buy while not knowing that a 10 year old in a sweat shop sewed them for us.
The issue of whether or not to vaccinate our children goes way beyond the questions of "Is it safe?" We should also be asking, "Is it right, is it just?"
Is it right that parents in Texas are forced to vaccinate their children or they will be fined thousands of dollars for refusing? IS it right that they are herded into a courthouse under police escort and forced to comply? Is it right that parents are bullied and refused treatment by doctors when they question the vaccination schedule? Is it right that responsible loving parents who choose not to vaccinate live in fear of a medical professional calling CPS and alleging medical neglect because they refuse to comply? Is it right that governments have the right to tell us how to raise our children?
These are all questions the vaccination issue raises for me.
Posted by: carrien | April 22, 2008 11:29 AM
